Curse

Dark Kal · Mar 04, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alicendre

And just like IRL they can be awesome or make you want to smash something.

In real life it's much easier to identify children and idiots, so I don't have to hang around with them.

To the OP: What you're saying is a fallacy. I'm 1/8 of a team and therefor do not bear full responsibility for how good or bad a group is regardless of my own skills. I can compensate to a certain degree but a group mainly consisting of bad players is a bad PUG, which is not my fault and I will not take "false" responsibility for others poor skills/judgement.

Grasping Darkness · Mar 04, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

i used to think it was funny when ppl whined at the monks when they died until i started using n/rt healers

Ctb · Mar 04, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

And no, your it's an MMO reason doesn't cut it

Yes, it does. Play the game how you want and leave him alone to play it how he wants. He has his opinion, you have yours, stop acting like there are hard and fast rules about how to enjoy a video game.

And for the record: people with lousy attitudes make bad PUGs. That means most of GWG is part of the problem. Just because you're not a "n00b lol" doesn't mean you're not a jerk, and jerks and "n00bs" are equally annoying when they have crappy attitudes. You all ought to keep that in mind as you spout off trying to show just how enlightened you are in regards to a computer game.

GForce9x · Mar 04, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

It's amazing the difference that something as simple as designating a person for calling targets can make, assuming the rest of the team goes along to attack those called targets.

I can't count how many times during Norn runs this weekend I lost the rampage bonus because people just decided to attack whatever target was close to them rather than focus on quickly killing the called target to refresh the timer.

Trub · Mar 04, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

/wave
Hiyas everyone.
My name is Trub, and I'm a confessed aggro RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO.
Please forgive me, I just get soooooo wrapped up into killing chit, that I DON'T look at the crazed mob of red dots who's space I am backing into....Nor the cap locked warnings from my team mates in chat...
Don't hate me, because I'm still beautiful in my armor, laughing as I rez you..

BlackSephir · Mar 04, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

You has rez??

Trub · Mar 04, 2008, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

You has rez??

I'm a (LONG) Bow Rit..of course I do!!

Oh yeah..forgive me for enraging critters in DoA with splinter barrage too...

The Meth · Mar 04, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

The problem with pugs is that 95% of good players will not pug any given mission/quest. That leaves the other 5% of good players to try to pug with the 100% of decent or downright bad players.

Pugs usually aren't overly horrible. I would say at least 5 out of 6 pug players are decent. I actually haven't seen that many stereotypical w/mo healer, ranger with multiple preps, or assassin tanks in a while. I think most good players just have that one really bad group experience and then swear off pugging forever.

Furthermore, a lot of players are very overly demanding/controlling of the group. Yes, an echo ss necro may be the absolute most effective build for a part of the game, does that mean any necro who didn't get it through a tome and start running it at lvl 5 is a noob?

Really, if you are a decent player and you have the ability to convince the group to follow you and listen to what the better methods are for certain areas, you still will have 99% success with pugs. PvE really isn't that hard.

IslandHermet · Mar 04, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

And you decided to let us all know this why?

A little off topic: Can I ask why the quality of PuGs has decreased over time? Are people seriously getting worse at the game over time? I think it might be because the ways of doing things have been refined to the point where anything less of those methods is seen as a waste of time/stupid, and so there's little to no tolerance for mistakes or bad players.

Its prolly the fact that more and more people find friends, guilds and alliances to join up with and give up on pugs like most of the GW world has done.

all the people who can not find friends online,or just plain suck at the game and will never get better still pug.

so today most pugs are 8 bad players who all hate each other because they all think it is the other person who is the bad player.
its a very simple answer to your question.

Ekelon · Mar 04, 2008, 06:28 PM // 18:28

My opinion:
Group Leader

1. for picking bad players (who has the right skills and will listen to the leader)
2. for not leading the group correctly

Bryant Again · Mar 04, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

It depends largely on how the PUG "fails." If you get a group set up of about 4 warriors and 4 monks I'd blame the party leader for putting together such an unbalanced group. If it's say in the Eternal Grove mission and nobody's doing their thing I'd say it's a group failure (best kind since everyone's blamed.) If some idiot goes and aggroes twelve groups of monsters than I'd put the blame on that asshole.

Ekelon · Mar 04, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It depends largely on how the PUG "fails." If you get a group set up of about 4 warriors and 4 monks I'd blame the party leader for putting together such an unbalanced group. If it's say in the Eternal Grove mission and nobody's doing their thing I'd say it's a group failure (best kind since everyone's blamed.) If some idiot goes and aggroes twelve groups of monsters than I'd put the blame on that asshole.

I put the blame on the party leader who was bad enough to invite that asshole

Ctb · Mar 04, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

I put the blame on the party leader who was bad enough to invite that asshole

We once met a Level 13 guildie into Snake Dance on a capping run. He was warned repeatedly to hang back until the major threats in each group were taken out, and not only did he not hang back, he repeatedly ran ahead and got himself killed.

He doesn't come along on that sort of thing anymore...

Horseman Of War · Mar 04, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Good Post OP.

Jesus, when I think of all the 1-timers I monked through the deep (there was a point where I would pug thru it 3 or more times in a day)... and the Zodiacs they got for it... I miss the old pre-kanaxai chest/HM days of 9-Man Deep.

I found a good tactic to be: (keep in mind VD has just been changed last month)

good - "Onis use Vipers Defense, so DONT attack them or they teleport around the warriors"
bad - "DONT WAND ONI NUB!"

Also-
Having the Send-To-Chat feature on skillbars nowadays means it is the responsibility of the party to actually look at it.

TheRaven · Mar 04, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I have to agree with Ekelon. The party leader has to step up to the plate and take some small steps to help the group succeed. There are warning signs that this pug will not succeed. Ignore them at your peril.

1. You receive a random invite. You accept and notice 20 more people on the invite list. This pug has a leader with no management skills whatsoever. He justs wants 8 people. Any 8. And he wants to start now. He doesn't care if 8 Assassins join or 8 Eles. He'll take the first 8. This pug will fail.

2. If you are in an elite area and you know certain builds are required for success (or at least well thought out alternate builds to the standard cookie cutters) then I expect the leader to ask joiners to ping their builds. Don't just assume that the ranger who joined is packing Frozen Soil. Ask him. If you don't and you later find out he brought 7 monk healing skills and Barrage then you can blame the leader as well as the ranger.

3. The leader needs to make sure the team is all on the same page before starting. Do you need masters? Are you going for the bonus or skipping? If you're heading into the FOW then what are your goals? Do you want to clear? Are you only interested in opening up the forge? Is this strictly a chest run? If you want to clear then make up that's what the rest of the team intends too otherwise you risk losing half your team in an hour once they get bored.

For the most part, I get good pugs. The bad ones can usually be blamed on poor or non-existant leadership.

Horseman Of War · Mar 04, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

/wave
Hiyas everyone.
My name is Trub, and I'm a confessed aggro RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO.
Please forgive me, I just get soooooo wrapped up into killing chit, that I DON'T look at the crazed mob of red dots who's space I am backing into....Nor the cap locked warnings from my team mates in chat...
Don't hate me, because I'm still beautiful in my armor, laughing as I rez you..

you win the thread.

Kusandaa · Mar 04, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

I put the blame on the party leader who was bad enough to invite that asshole

TBH it's not so easy to spot the assholes and the good players. If you have knowledge on the area and if you get me an effective build for it, I'll automatically assume that you're not going to be out of my radar and blame the monks for not healing you. Yet, I've seen it happen; the most recent was yesterday, in fact.

I'm not about to start interviewing every PUG on their aggro habits and their personalities. Every now and then I'll ask if they're familiar with the area, though (especially when using effective tactics that aren't used a lot within PUGs).

And in every group, there's a guy who can't even understand a simple "don't move".

Bryant Again · Mar 04, 2008, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

I put the blame on the party leader who was bad enough to invite that asshole

Now that ain't nice. How was the party leader supposed to know?

Age · Mar 04, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by enxa

Lots of bad attitudes here about PUGs, threads about 7 heroes, more control over henchies...
But whose fault it is when a PUG fails?
My oppinion:
Everybodys!

the easiest thing to do is to blame the 13 yr old kid, or blame the one that pulled that extra group, and call him names like NOOB and put him on the ignore list so he cant reply to you.

But we all know thats wrong. All who dont agree with that are in denial!

Quote:

Why exactly is it your fault?
You simply didnt do enough to add to the team.

It wasn't my fault as I was doing my jop.

Quote:

You expect too much.

Not that you shouldnt expect anything, but you should expect failure as well as success. You just have to be real and be aware that a PUG will never ever do as well as an organized team. Ever!

I thought a Pug was suppose to be an organized team.

Quote:

Lack of organization.

But even a PUG can be an organized team. You remember that other players are human, right? Talk to them! Spare 1 minute and discuss strategies, usefull builds, favorite ice cream flavours, BEFORE you enter the destination area.

They never want to do this especially if no one except Monks bring a res (when I play monk)

Quote:

Lack of leadership.

So youre all running arround, everybody just doing their thing, and it doesnt look good? Dont ragequit! Take initiative instead.
Humans are pack animals! What i mean by that is that they will follow the person they percieve as the most able and knowlegable one, or at least, more so than themselves. Use this! Guide the team to success if noone else wont.

There is leadership the person who puts the group together is the leader.

Quote:

Last but not least, too little communication.

You know that when you smile to people, you will get a smile back? Its true

Same goes for talking. Unless someone is really pi$$ed at you, which people in a PUG have no reason to be.
So takl! Say woohoo and gg when youre done with a group of mobs. Give the monk a kiss for a good job. Tell the female mesmer shes hawt. Do your part to make others feel they are in a team. Believe me, they will respond, and it will be fun and the way it was intended to be in a MMO. And if you fail at the mission, you still had fun!

There is communication except some just don't want to listenand think they know it all.

There. I had to say that. Tho it doesnt really look like what it looked in my head, but its all there. Sorry if its long.

Just my oppinion.

The thing is when most players possibly by today is because they got ran with their first char and on their account or they just didn't bother to learn that profession.

Koudelka · Mar 04, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

The OP is ftw

.

Eugh... well... I try and PUG, I really do. Most of the time henchmen are a good substitute, but not even Lina can talk to you about your day (but she can give you a lovely smile, even when she resses in the middle of a mob of Ruby Djinns). However, my builds are unothodox. My first character was a water ele. I use mesmers almost always (NO-ONE has the authority to lecture me on my mesmer builds :P). Sadly, there are some people, like the jos, who are elitist. If I pinged my water ele build, my life expectancy in the party would decrease very rapidly.

My monk's favourite elite is Healer's Covenant. If I pinged that instead of Healer's Boon, people like him would /kick faster than I could say "hello, how are you?". Anyway, away from the rant, PUGs are nice when the people are friendly and NOT elitist. However, my mesmers would slap you if you called them "hawt" xP.